The Forgotten 30%: Navigating Life with Persistent Post-Concussion Symptoms

Chaandani Khan's story begins with a life derailed. Six years ago, a car accident left this high-achieving event planner with a concussion that transformed her world overnight. The woman who once thrived on 70-hour work weeks, constant travel, and a packed social calendar suddenly couldn't make a sandwich or find matching shoes. The cognitive fog was so thick that even basic tasks became mountains to climb.

What unfolds in this raw, vulnerable conversation is a journey through the challenging landscape of persistent post-concussion syndrome (PPCS). Chaandani shares how she navigated years of appointments with multiple practitioners—sometimes five days a week—while grappling with the profound question: "Who am I now that everything that defined me has been stripped away?"

The heartbeat of this episode is the critical gap Chaandani identified during her recovery: many healthcare providers, though well-intentioned, aren't truly "concussion-informed." She describes how practitioners might overwhelm patients with too much information delivered too rapidly, or fail to recognize when patients are "masking" their symptoms while internally struggling. With approximately 30% of concussion cases becoming persistent, this represents thousands of people potentially falling through the cracks.

Today, Chaandani has transformed her experience into a mission. She now educates practitioners on practical strategies to better serve their concussion patients—from slowing speech patterns to controlling environmental factors like lighting and sound. She's developing an online learning community for professionals launching in 2025, aiming to create systemic change that improves outcomes for all PPCS patients.

Connect with Chaandani at www.returntolife.ca and discover how her work is helping bridge the gap between patients and practitioners in the concussion recovery journey.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Book Announcement
• 5:10 Chandani's Life Before Brain Injury
• 8:40 Post-Concussion Symptoms and Challenges
• 14:50 Recovery Journey and Treatment Experiences
• 25:49 Healthcare Gaps in Concussion Treatment
• 34:59 Sensory Challenges and Environmental Adjustments
• 44:14 Progress After Six Years
• 50:24 Rebuilding Identity After Brain Injury
• 54:49 Future Projects and Contact Information

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:10

Hey listeners, ayla Wolf here. I've been talking about my book for six months now and I can finally say it's finished. You can find my book on Amazon. It is titled the Concussion Breakthrough Discover the Missing Pieces to Recovery. Just look for the light gray cover with a water colored puzzle piece brain and you'll be in the right spot. I'll put a link in the show notes as well.

Speaker 1: 1:41

In this episode of the podcast, I have a very honest and open conversation with an absolutely wonderful soul, chandani Khan. I listened to her speak on a different podcast and I immediately looked her up because I knew I wanted to talk to her. Six years ago, a brain injury derailed Chandani's entire life, which left her navigating persistent post-concussion symptoms what she refers to as PPCS in the episode and an overwhelming amount of loss. Preparing a cup of tea, washing clothes and sending emails became monumental challenges, and her familiar fast-paced lifestyle appeared impossibly far out of reach. Going through years of recovery appointments and eventually ingraining herself in the concussion space allowed her to identify key gaps and the demand for a new path forward. She is now a survivor-turned-educator for practitioners who serve the concussion PPCS population. She currently teaches educational workshops and looks forward to announcing the launch of her Learning Community for Professionals in 2025. She aims to lead lasting change in the overall space through education and innovation, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Chandani as much as I did. Thanks again for listening to the show. If you wouldn't mind taking a minute and leaving us a quick review that helps listeners like you find us a little bit easier.

Speaker 1: 3:09

Welcome to Life After Impact, the concussion recovery podcast. I'm Dr Ayla Wolf and I will be hosting today's episode where we help you navigate the often confusing, frustrating and overwhelming journey of concussion and brain injury recovery. This podcast is your go-to resource for actionable information, whether you're dealing with a recent concussion, struggling with post-concussion syndrome or just feeling stuck in your healing process. In each episode, we dive deep into the symptoms, testing, treatments and neurological insights that can help you move forward with clarity and confidence. We bring you leading experts in the world of brain health, functional neurology and rehabilitation to share their wisdom and strategies. So if you're feeling lost, hopeless or like no one understands what you're going through, know that you are not alone. This podcast can be your guide and partner in recovery, helping you build a better life after impact. Chandani, thank you for coming on to the Life After Impact podcast, and I'm very much looking forward to our conversation.

Speaker 2: 4:17

Thank you for having me. I as well am looking forward to diving in with you.

Speaker 1: 4:21

Yeah, why don't you start by telling us a little bit about your story and kind of what your life looked like before your head injury, and then what happened after?

Speaker 2: 4:31

Sure so to be able to share the intensity and the gravity of the situation and the injury, I'd like to share a little bit about my old self first. So I used to work in the events industry and, for those who know, it is chaotic, it is demanding, it is wild, but it's also so much fun. And you know, in that industry I was traveling frequently as well, as you know, working 50 to 70 hours a week at times. I also had a very busy social life. I had hobbies and sports and I was an avid volunteer for many years, actually since childhood. So, as you can see, I was living a very fulsome life. And then, you know, one day I was in a car accident, which was actually six years ago, and I had neck and back injuries, but by far the worst was a concussion brain injury that I sustained.

Speaker 1: 5:17

Do you, can you, speak a little bit to maybe the immediate symptoms that you had, as well as kind of, maybe symptoms that became more obvious as time went on?

Speaker 2: 5:27

Yeah, and that's a really good question. I appreciate that you're pulling it apart that way because, you know, initially after the injury, you know I had a lot of trouble understanding basic conversation. I had a lot of trouble, you know, with word finding. I felt really just really odd. I felt like I was in this brain fog, this really sort of distant space from where I physically was. I was having a hard time with all types of memory Working. Memory was especially challenging for me. So to be able to, you know, be active and engaged in someone speaking to me or any given task, and I had challenges around, you know, life sensitivity, sound sensitivity and so on and so forth.

Speaker 2: 6:04

But the interesting thing is, as we know now with concussions, is that some symptoms do show up right after the injury, whereas others kind of evolve in time, whether it's a couple of days or a couple of weeks, etc. Now I just just to really add some color context to this. I went from living that fulsome life that I described to all of a sudden being a person who did not know how to make a sandwich anymore. So it just didn't make sense for me. Also, you know other basic skills like I. It just evaded me, leaving the house with two shoes on my feet. You know I would somehow scramble, try to grab what I needed. Leave the house, get outside, look down and I'd see one shoe and one sock and I like, internally I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't actually cognitively figure out what the problem was. So I would just cry and cry, and cry and then I would just be a mess of tears and confusion.

Speaker 2: 6:51

And you know some other examples. Is I like to show up in a very vulnerable, raw way, to really lead by example. So even you know, being able to find clean clothes every day, that was something that was extraordinarily challenging for me. You know, I'd go into my closet, I'd look around, I'd get distracted, I wasn't sure what I was doing, I wasn't focusing, I wasn't paying attention. You know what I know now to be prefrontal cortex. You know skills of whether it's like analysis or organizing or planning or thinking. You know, through complex tasks, I just, it just was too much for me to be able to think this is a clean shirt, I should take off the one that I'm wearing and put it on. So you know.

Speaker 1: 7:28

Yeah, that's gotta be so scary to. I mean, event planning is like my worst nightmare because there's so many moving parts to planning an event and so for me maybe with all my concussions, whenever there's an event that I'm supposed to help plan, it's my least favorite thing, because I don't think my brain likes to have to work in that way. So for you to be this expert level event planner to then not even being able to understand, like, how to find clean clothes and put shoes on and make a sandwich, I mean that had to have been so scary.

Speaker 2: 8:01

It was. It was, it was scary, it was overwhelming, you know. At that time, though, I realized now that I didn't have the cognitive wherewithal to have the luxury of introspecting and thinking wow, this is scary, it was just. I was just in the situation, it was full on, I was overwhelmed, I was anxious about it, I was crying for these unknown reasons. It just was very different. And a note on events is that I absolutely love logistics. I've always loved logistics. I love the chaos. I still have love in my heart for the chaos of events. That's, of course, not what I do anymore. It's not, probably, where I absolutely excel at the same level, but I still have that love for it, and you can call me next time you have an event you're working with well, I plan on doing a book launch, so if you want to help me plan that, okay.

Speaker 1: 8:47

So that's so. You were very symptomatic and pretty immediately after the injury, and then you also had the physical injuries, with the neck injury. To tell me a little bit about some of the initial therapies that you sought out and where were you finding the most help, kind of either, you know right away.

Speaker 2: 9:05

So, you know, it's one of those things I kind of sigh first before answering this question, because what I know now I wish I knew then. There isn't necessarily like a standardized process that every single person with a concussion is put through right. There is so much variance in the space. So when I speak about this it very much is speaking to my own experience and for now I'll hold on speaking to the experience of others.

Speaker 2: 9:30

So for me, in a hyper-specific way, I was initially referred over to body based treatment. So you know, chiropractor, a physiotherapist, rmt, and from there, you know these, one of the professionals that I worked with at that point in time was concussion informed and was able to identify other areas that I should be looking at, you know, and we added a kinesiologist to the team and so on and so forth. In my personal experience I, you know, also had a doctor and a neurologist and I saw, you know, holistic care like acupuncture, and I saw an osteopath who specializes in cranial treatment and concussion, and you know there were actually more than this. There is a bit of a laundry list. So I was seeing, you know, a whole collection of professionals. Initially I was in appointments, you know, a few times a week, sometimes up to five days a week, and this lasted for a few years of my life.

Speaker 1: 10:24

Wow, that's a lot of therapy. Yes, absolutely. I. That really resonates with me too, in terms of you know, when any healthcare provider takes a class on concussions, they always start the class with once you've seen one concussion, you've seen one concussion.

Speaker 1: 10:43

But the truth also is that once you've seen one doctor, you've seen one doctor, and so the degree to which that healthcare provider is informed on concussions and can step in and provide the guidance and the recommendations of well let's, you know, let's look at this aspect and that aspect and have have we looked at the neurocognitive testing? Have we done the right assessments for the neck injuries? Have we, you know, looked into the mental health side of it? You know there's, like you said, there's so many places where somebody can fall through the cracks or not necessarily have all, all parts of it get addressed.

Speaker 2: 11:23

Absolutely, and what you're. You know I love that expression that you that you shared. I haven't heard the other half of it that you shared as well, about the practitioner side, but it's very interesting and I mean that that's the exact thing. Is that from the patient perspective? You know different now, if I zoom out a little bit and think about, you know hundreds of people with PPCS that I've heard pain points and challenges from over the years. You know, it's just it's a very different path forward and, as you said, there are a lot of factors.

Speaker 2: 11:47

I mean, of course there are personal factors that might be preexisting conditions, might be mental health, but but if we kind of set those aside and look at the similarities in terms of the concussion experience, I mean it would be incredible if we were able to push to a place where there is a standardized treatment, standardized testing, and then there's specific treatment that everyone just goes through. Right now, patients are very much relying on. Well, the onus does fall on the patient in terms of concussion and PPCS recovery. So, you know, maybe it's on you to think what's wrong with me during a time when your brain, your cognitive skills, are not there the way they used to be.

Speaker 1: 12:23

Maybe you know you're researching, but again you're having trouble being on a laptop, reading the words, comprehending what you're reading, also just relying on being sent to various professionals who you know I say this very respectfully a lot of professionals can treat, but not all professionals are concussion informed, and that makes a massive difference in terms of really being able to meet the patient where they're at and serve them in a way that works and it sets them up for think.

Speaker 1: 12:57

When you use the term persistent post-concussion syndrome, you know that's what my book is really. That is who my book is for, and I think that most of the books out there, the educational materials out there, are kind of this standard like, oh, you get a concussion and here's what it looks like, but it's still very much that acute stage. And so once you have somebody who clearly is not healing in the kind of expected short window of time and they go on to have these persistent symptoms, that's where I think people do end up falling through the cracks more. And so that was really you know, that was the group of people that my book was geared towards is the people who are like okay, you know I'm now a year out and I'm still symptomatic, so what do I do next? And what maybe got missed? You know, over the last 12 months that I still need to address?

Speaker 1: 13:48

So, I'm curious, you know, can you talk about where you are now, six years after, and how are you doing and are there still therapies you're pursuing?

Speaker 2: 13:59

I will happily dive right into those questions, but I just wanted to comment and say that I am so excited about your book. I am thrilled that you have written it for that population. I refer to PPCS persistent post-concussive symptoms, also known as PCS, and a few other terms. In my experience, in my opinion, in my realm, this is a fairly, you know, forgotten segment, although current research is telling us that approximately 30% of concussion cases do become persistent. Now, that's thousands upon thousands of people who are sitting in that level of stuckness and, like you said, they're a year out, they're five years out, so on and so forth, and they still have symptoms or just, you know, various limitations in their life because of symptoms that may or may not be aware of. So I just wanted to pepper that in and say that I'm so thrilled that you've created this book and this incredible resource and I'm looking forward to reading it.

Speaker 2: 14:51

So now, where was I going? Next was going to, uh, give a little check-in of where I'm at now, six years later. Yes, okay, so, yeah, so, actually, as of last month um, it was my six-year anniversary and you know, in a lot of ways I have improved a ton, scientifically speaking, a ton. I've made you know leaps and bounds. I've back skills. A lot of this has been very intentional work, like building back skills, building up different parts of my brain, you know, really, really pushing forward if that makes sense in you know, in in a way that works for me and my body, in a way that was guided.

Speaker 2: 15:30

So in this space I mean maybe you found this as well and in concussion space, you're often taught to when you're answering, how are you doing?

Speaker 2: 15:38

You're taught to compare back how are you today versus one year ago, versus three versus five, and so if I answer that way, I'd say I'm doing pretty, pretty amazing.

Speaker 2: 15:46

I will also be honest and continue showing up in my vulnerable way and say that there are a few things that are still not my hundred percent functioning, are a few things that are still not my 100% functioning. However, when you know I do know how my brain works right now, like I'm very well aware how my brain works, and when I practice what I preach in terms of showing up in ways that work for my brain or engaging in various pacing strategies, I can be incredibly effective, incredibly limitless. It's just the times that you know I do push outside of that, then I still do find a bit of a challenge. So you know, I share that again in means of just really saying hey, I am an expert in the space, I understand where you've been, I've been there, I can help you through and further. I aim to pave a different path forward for people with PPCS, because I don't think it has to be as hard as it is right now.

Speaker 1: 16:31

Yeah, there's a I don't know if he would call himself a business coach, but his name is Rory Vaden, and he always likes to say that you are in the position to help the person that you once were, and so I think you know that's where I think you and I have a lot of similarities is like we've both been, had this lived experience, and now we're in a place where we're trying to create resources for people.

Speaker 1: 16:56

The book that I wrote was very much a book that I would have loved to have read back in 2012. You know, when I was, when I had a number of concussions close together and that was really kind of the height of my you know, experience with a lot of post-concussion syndrome was 2012 to 2014 for sure, and so, yeah, I mean I really like I wrote that book, for you know the person I was back then. You know I would have loved to have had this book when I was going through it back then, and I think that it sounds like what you're doing right now in terms of creating these programs and these resources for healthcare providers is to say, man, if I had had an experience where I could go to somebody who truly understood this in a really deep way. That would have been really, really helpful.

Speaker 2: 18:51

Absolutely, and that's absolutely. I understand where you're coming from, saying that you wrote this book thinking of you. Know you back then needing this type of resource First? My first thought that comes to my mind is that that is one thing that is just missing in the concussion recovery space is that there isn't just one single resource. There isn't one you know, one-stop shop where people can be like I have an injury, I'm going here. Every single thing will be looked at. Now I want to be careful and say that you know, when you think about the realm of sport, that I tend to separate that, as I believe that sport is a bit of a beast of its own in different ways. But you know, my focus in particular is the everyday person who wants to return to their life and return to their lifestyle. So that comes up first and foremost for me.

Speaker 1: 19:59

Right, when somebody gets a concussion, like your experience, you said well, I had to go to five different providers every single week and have five different appointments and the concussion center for everybody that they can just go to and have all of the tests done and then see all the providers who are all working together. Yeah, just get everyone.

Speaker 2: 20:12

Sorry, just so passionate about this point, I'm just jumping right in. Yes, like imagine that we could do that, you know, and in the meantime I mean that's not going to be like a snap fingers and move overnight type of thing, but in the meantime, resources like your book, for example, or you know the way that I'm able to bring lived experience together to present to practitioners I feel like these types of changes in the space are impactful and they are taking us in that direction to be able to take from what we know so well and equip others who are already incredibly talented and educated and experts in different spaces, but just to give that extra edge to them so that they're really able to understand it. In your case, it's for people to really deeply understand, like, what the heck is going on with me? What can I do about it? Dot, dot, dot. How do I get back to my life?

Speaker 2: 20:56

For me it's, you know, approaching various practitioners who are experts in, you know, the practical treatment and the education. But maybe they haven't lived PPCS before, they haven't lived concussion before, so they're hyper focused in their area, which perhaps is a hands on physical body treatment. But you know, are they aware that, for example, their patient is having massive issues around comprehension and they can't quite understand the-home exercises. You're telling them to do so, therefore they're dropping off or so on and so forth, and I'm hoping to, you know, be able to bring everybody onto a similar page and to bridge that massive gap that I see between patient need and the way the medical system at times provides that support.

Speaker 1: 21:37

Yeah, do you want to talk a little bit about the types of educational content you've developed?

Speaker 2: 21:44

Yes, I do. I'm so excited to be able to be. I feel like it's such a privilege to be in this position to go through a really, really deeply humbling life experience like this, followed by rebuilding all parts of my life, and then be able to ingrain myself in the space with thousands of others who have actively have PPCS, hear their pain points and then create something that I feel paves the path forward. So that you know that's underlying my eagerness to say absolutely I do. So. What I'm doing right now is I'm teaching educational workshops that are rooted in real life insight to various concussion practitioners.

Speaker 2: 22:24

There has been a very, you know, thus far, there's been a very natural fit for me to serve chiropractors and physiotherapists.

Speaker 2: 22:32

You know, at this point in time, I've been in touch with, you know various practitioners as well as clinics, and there are certain pain points, if you will, various practitioners as well as clinics, and there are certain pain points, if you will, within those spaces, as these professionals provide this incredible hands-on treatment.

Speaker 2: 22:46

And, you know, if someone hasn't, like I said a moment ago, if they haven't lived the full experience of PPCS and potentially aren't aware of all the different parts that are affecting a patient at any given time, I'm able to provide education, practical strategies and some deep insight to help fill in those gaps for them. I want to be really clear that my goal in doing this is not to drown professionals in a level of information. It's really to skim the surface, to help them understand what is the patient perspective, what are the hidden challenges that they could be facing that are affecting the patient, from either engaging in your therapy, returning to appointments, so on and so forth, or even expressing what is really going on in their body, followed by actionable steps that the practitioner can take in the form of practical strategies. They're able to put them in place right away, same day after we have a session together.

Speaker 1: 23:45

That's amazing. Can you give me an example?

Speaker 2: 23:47

like one of those things that somebody could put into practice right away, no-transcript. So one thing and this and I want to just also give a disclaimer that a lot, a lot of these strategies at the at the onset might sound fairly simplistic, but really the magic is understanding why you're doing it and then stacking multiple strategies together. That is where you're able to really help to alter how you're showing up to meet the patient where they are. So, for an example, a lot of in my experience, a lot of physiotherapists and chiropractors get, you know, very excited with, with patient education. And so the you know end of the appointment comes and you know maybe they're they're ready to off board for that particular appointment. They're wrapping up. They want to tell the patient you know what exercises to engage in, how many times. They want to also say do you have any plans this weekend? Oh, and also, by the way, the reason you're doing X exercise is for. And then they insert some interesting education about the body and about the patient's injury they're working through.

Speaker 2: 24:47

So for me, for example, you know, when I work with physios and chiros one-to-one, I ask them I'm like, hey, can you give me an example of how you're wrapping up an appointment. And so, because for me, at this point in time, it's very, it's very quick and easy, with the knowledge that I have to be able to say, okay, these are the sections that you're going to be talking about, let's look to how can we, how can we present them in a way that will again match the patient where they're at? And one really simple thing we can be aware of is is not sharing too many topics at one point in time within the same space. Another piece is really even more simple is just to control how you're speaking. It's to slow down your speech, it's to insert very intentional pauses as well, and this gives the time, gives time for patients to be able to cognitively, you know, have the opportunity to catch up a little bit and to be able to actually really engage with what's being said.

Speaker 2: 25:37

Youlying this that you and various concussion experts may know is that overwhelm is a very common symptom that patients face EPCS with concussion. This can be from when you wake up in the morning, you are just feeling overwhelmed, or it can be with receiving a certain amount of information, or information at a certain speed, information at a certain speed. So it's really, you know, equipping professionals to understand what's going on for the patient at any given time, so they can alter the behavior and meet the patient where they're at. Because, at the end of the day, we're all in this because we want those incredible patient outcomes.

Speaker 1: 26:10

So I'm kind of internally smiling as you talk, because I love to teach and I think, if anything, I'm super guilty of everything you just talked about in terms of smiling. I'm like, okay, I probably overshare way too much information. It's probably information overload. I'm probably talking too fast, not taking breaks, so yeah, and I mean from a great place.

Speaker 2: 26:37

It's coming from a great place, I know it is. I mean with you personally, but with everyone in this space. Yeah, so I saw you smiling. I was like I know this is, I know this is landing.

Speaker 1: 26:47

Oh yeah, I'm super guilty of all of those.

Speaker 2: 27:01

But that's the cool thing about this is that the more and more people that I speak with I mean this is just skimming the surface, like I like to do a deeper dive with people and really understand how are you showing up and I'm able to very quickly customize a plan forward. You know, and then I also ask everyone like follow up with me, let me know how it's going.

Speaker 1: 27:08

And yeah, and I think one of the things that I learned, you know, early on in, in the dangers of kind of throwing too much information at somebody too, is, you know, I do a comprehensive exam where I gather a lot of information about a lot of different systems in the brain and I, so I can speak to, how is somebody's you know parietal lobe in terms of the mapping of their body? And I think at the start of really getting into this I was just so excited about all the neuroanatomy and neurophysiology and I'd be trying to educate people on this stuff that I thought was so cool. But then what I realized is that these people were taking the information, but then they it was like a horrible game of telephone where then they'd go to their other doctor and say, oh well, I just saw Dr. And say, oh well, I just saw Dr Wolf, and she told me my you know, my parietal lobes broken and it's like, well, okay, I didn't say that.

Speaker 2: 28:04

Yeah, you're paraphrasing this.

Speaker 1: 28:13

Yeah, and so I was like okay, the game of telephone is happening and I don't now want these other doctors to think that I'm telling patients something I'm not. To think that I'm telling patients something I'm not. Yes, that's very real, it is real, and you know sometimes. So I knew that I wanted to be in healthcare from like the age of six, and so I forget that there's a whole world of people out there that they're not in this field and the terminology is not second nature to them. And so when I start going on and on about dysautonomia and different parts of the brain, I think a lot of people are just like you're speaking Greek to me right now, and so I think that something that has become so familiar to me and ingrained in my psyche I forget that that is just a totally different world. If I tried to hang out with a mathematician, I would just be like I don't. I don't understand what you're talking about. Or even like a car mechanic I'm like does not compute.

Speaker 2: 29:12

Exactly Right and and that's what the way that your brain is operating now, right, and imagine having those in-depth conversations with that mechanic or with a mathematician when you were in that post-concussive state, right, and I don't mean this, people who are listening can't see us just like smirking away. We're just we're smirking pretty hard here and I want to say again I know it comes from, like you said, it's just, it's a place of enthusiasm, it's sharing, it's just, it's a place of enthusiasm, it's sharing, it's passion and I love that and you are one of my favorite types to work with Because you know what you're describing. It's actually so, so common and you know that gives me actually a lot of hope. And around people who do treat the concussion population, because nowadays, especially in the past five, six years, we've seen a lot increased uptake in research, in discussion, in funding, in so many, you know uptake in research, in discussion, in funding, in so many, you know people paving new paths forward.

Speaker 2: 30:05

And so when I have the privilege of working with various health practitioners who serve that population and are excited and lit up to educate and to talk about what they're doing with the person, that fuels me with hope, because it wasn't always that way. You know it's really what. Even in the past 10 years, we've seen massive changes. Let alone, you know, if we continue going decades back. But where we're at right now, I just feel like we're. It's so timely to be really empowering everyone to just understand a bit about the beneath the surface, the behind the scenes of the experience, so that we're able to continue, you know, giving a new path forward and helping people recover.

Speaker 1: 30:38

Maybe it's more efficiently maybe it's more effectively, etc. Yeah, there's. You know, there is a lot of thought that could go into a lot of the, the layout of even a clinic, and so, because I've had my concussions and I've had light sensitivity and there's certain backgrounds that I don't like, I completely understand when people come into my office and they say, hey, I need you to dim the lights, I need you to turn off the white noise machine. Can we turn the blinds all the way up so that there's not this contrast between the sky and then the blackout curtains, Like when people come into my office. That's the kind of stuff that I can completely jump on board with because I'm I completely understand it. So there's certain things that I'm good at, but then, like I said, I'm like okay, I'm probably not so good at the slow down the talking. Take some pauses, make sure that people are still with you.

Speaker 2: 31:35

Well, but I'm so glad that you're mentioning this because it's it's so, it's so common what you're saying with experts in various spaces, just like yourself, and you know what you're describing. I have so many thoughts. I'm going to try to consolidate where we're going here in my point. But you know, with various patients or clients coming to see you and asking for specific shifts in the physical environment, that of course, of course that would land and of course then you're like, of course I'll do this for you and it makes sense for our treatment or it doesn't, depending on how you're treating. I can't speak to that, but I also want to say that you know when I.

Speaker 2: 32:08

Why I'm so lit up about serving practitioners in this way is because often, just you know, practitioners and expertise set aside for a moment, we are all just human and and so often as humans, we just we look for visual cues to help guide us, whether we're in conversation or we're doing an intake form or anything like that, and this is something also that I bring to the attention of people that I, that I serve is just, you know, in the concussion and PPCS, space masking is an incredibly common activity that people engage in for a variety of reasons, and when I say masking, I mean someone who's, you know, maybe their brain, maybe they're not able to listen, they're not following language, maybe they're in pain, maybe their mind is, they're not focusing, they're not paying attention, the lights distracting, etc.

Speaker 2: 32:51

Etc. Right, maybe they're not really present, but externally they might be just nodding along and smiling, much like you and I are right now on this conversation, right? So I also really, you know, want to bring that in front of people and say that that is why what I'm doing, I feel, is really helping to pave a path by partnering with professionals and just really meeting professionals where they're at. You know, it's when you are, when you have such a level of expertise built in a field, like you said, you're not necessarily thinking on this sort of micro step level, but that's where I come in and that's why it's so complimentary for me to be able to bring this in and, you know, help equip you to continue really helping people get where they need to be.

Speaker 1: 33:30

Yeah, that's a really good point that you make. So somebody could be nodding along, acting like they're completely engaged in what you're saying. But the reality is that they might be completely checked out and their brain maybe just kind of shuts off in a moment or they're too distracted by a noise or the lighting or all that stuff. And so I do often check in with my patients when they come in and I'm asking them do you want these lights off? Do you want the shades up? Do you want the music off? Because I know that these are really important things that could completely derail a treatment. If the entire time they're in the room, they're uncomfortable.

Speaker 2: 34:08

Yeah, absolutely, and I'm so glad, like you know, with your lived experience, you're already you know leaps and bounds beyond perhaps a practitioner that hasn't had that opportunity, should we say, to live the experience and to know those things that you know and you know. I'll just share something that came to mind when you were describing the environment and patients or clients making requests. It takes me back a few years, so I want to separate this. So, for my recovery, I attended RMT sessions that were very painful but necessary to help get my back and neck in order. Outside of that, I decided to book myself a relaxation massage at a nice spa a few years ago, and so I went in going to go do my thing.

Speaker 2: 34:47

And I got in there and I was laying down and you know, the lights are dim and there was music on, and that was at a point when I was just really intolerant. It was really, you know, not relaxing for me, and so I'd asked this, this practitioner, I'm like hey, do you mind actually just turning the music off? And she's like sure. So she turned it down like a couple of levels and came back and started going in. I was like oops, nope, sorry, do you mind turning it off, off so that there's no sound, and she just couldn't cope with that. She's like what you don't want sound, okay, like off. So she turned it off and then I think she just felt weird and that was her own journey. Bless her heart. But but to the point of, you know that type of experience very much.

Speaker 2: 35:25

A lot of patients who might have PPCS going in to see various practitioners, they might be asking for things like that and if the practitioner isn't, as I say, concussion informed, they may receive similar feedback. And so, yeah, I just I just wanted to share that. That's just an offshoot that came to mind and I was like, yeah, this just kind of drives the point further.

Speaker 1: 35:45

Yeah, and in a lot of physical therapy clinics you've got open therapy bays where you've got a lot of people all kind of in one space together, and so I could also see in in that sense that you know it can be difficult when you're coming in and there's all this kind of commotion going on around you. I mean.

Speaker 1: 36:03

I know. For me, I've never understood how anybody can take their laptop to a coffee shop and get any kind of work done, because I need, like complete silence and zero distraction in order to focus. I don't. I don't need the opposite, which is people coming and going and talking and music and the sound of the coffee machines. I don't. I don't need the opposite, which is people coming and going and talking and music and the sound of the coffee machines. I'm just like I don't understand how that's even a thing.

Speaker 2: 36:26

Let me ask you this Did you feel that way before your injuries in the 2012 sort of to 2014 period? Think about coffee shops. Think about being at an event or a concert or a busy environment, traveling in an airplane think about those.

Speaker 1: 36:41

Well, so my first concussion was when I was 18. And I got kicked in the head, and after that I had a change in my hearing where it was really hard to hear other people in busy environments.

Speaker 2: 36:53

Yes.

Speaker 1: 36:53

And I have a whole section of that in my book. But so I think that I when I was younger I for sure hung out at coffee shops, but I never. I don't think I could ever really get much work done at a coffee shop, and I also didn't love being in really loud, noisy environments because I just couldn't hear the people I was with and it was always a little frustrating to be like what would you say? What'd you say, what?

Speaker 2: 37:24

Yeah, I thank you for sharing that, and I know from experience exactly what you're talking about in terms of the loud environment, and I was curious, just, you know, being that you had your first concussion at 18, of course, that could have shifted some things for you starting then, but you know, being in a coffee shop, that is something that I have personally been very affected by as well, so I was nodding away when you're sharing this and this is something that you know, I've shared throughout to every practitioner I've ever worked with, to speaking on podcasts, to working with people one on one, to, you know, bringing that into how I teach now with practitioners as well. Coffee shops it's so funny because you're right, for some people, they go and they read a book and it's an ideal environment. It's total chaos, if you ask me, but in my experience of this, I'm kind of opposite from you. So nowadays I mean, oh my gosh, since my injury, coffee shops are not relaxing. I can't hear, I can't focus. It feels like overwhelming chaos. There's movement, there's sound, everything. There's smell, right, like all the senses are engaged.

Speaker 2: 38:20

However, in my before life, I used to work in events, and so I traveled. Often. Airplanes are very loud, by the way, I traveled often I was, you know, being in a crowd of 100,000 or 500,000 people was very normal for me and I did excel in that space. That is when I focused my best and I was a person in those days where I constantly I mean I worked remotely a lot of the time. So I was constantly working on airplanes, on trains, in coffee shops, in restaurants, in the middle of a 500,000 person event. So I had that experience where, for me, I was just that is where I tapped in and I was my most efficient. I think like there's something to be said here about being an A-type and, you know, in overdrive, but that's a whole other conversation. So for me it's just been this massive shift where now you bring up coffee shops and like that's a massive topic in my personal life and my personal experience.

Speaker 1: 39:19

Yeah, and for so long I didn't understand why I had so much anxiety when I would say, go to a restaurant with a group of people or, you know, a party or whatever it was, where there was just a lot of people and a lot of noise and a lot of conversations. So for the thing that you know is I often am kind of stunned by is the fact that when I had post-concussion syndrome, I didn't know I had post-concussion syndrome. I just knew I was struggling in life and I didn't quite know why until I had my light bulb moment that went off. And so for so long I just didn't know why I felt anxious and uncomfortable in my own skin. And then, obviously, once I recognized what was going on and I was like, oh aha, this all makes sense.

Speaker 1: 39:53

I just remember very clearly my sister and I went to New Orleans in 2021 for a little sister getaway vacation and we were walking down Bourbon Street on a Saturday night and I was walking down the street and I was like, yeah, I mean, we're talking 10 years or more of not being comfortable in busy environments and avoiding concerts and avoiding crowds and avoiding, you know, state fairs and avoiding all that stuff. And then to be able to walk down Bourbon Street and feel relaxed in my own skin on a Saturday night.

Speaker 2: 40:34

Okay, I have goosebumps, I genuinely do, because what you're sharing like it's still it's still really strikes a chord with me. I can still. I feel what you're feeling. I feel what you're describing. That is massive and if somebody hasn't lived the experience that you have, with your multiple concussions, especially in a short period of time and PPCS, or the PPCS I experienced, they wouldn't quite grasp that. But that alone, I mean just like it's probably one of the most chaotic environments you could ever paint to drop into. So so that's huge and, of course, it stands out to you as this, this flashbulb memory of aha.

Speaker 1: 41:06

Yeah, it was kind of a victory moment. Not that I need to be on Bourbon street frequently, but let's be clear Ayla does do some incredible work.

Speaker 2: 41:14

She's not always on Bourbon street.

Speaker 1: 41:16

Yeah. So I mean, I think, too, some people start to feel hopeless. They feel like, oh, is this ever going to get better? And for me, you know, I had two concussions that were 10 days apart, maybe in 2012., and then another one in 2013. Then I had one in 2018. And I actually just hit my head two months ago and I had symptoms for 10 days. And so, again, it's like people often have this sense of hopelessness, and sometimes it's nice to hear that for me, I don't feel like I'm missing out on life by not going to concerts and events and I'm such an introvert that I don't feel like I'm missing out but to be able to have the flexibility to be okay in those environments if I find myself in them, that's important to me, and so it took a very long time, but it was like, hey, I made it, it happened.

Speaker 2: 42:14

It's a massive moment of triumph. I hope you found some way to celebrate it, or I did, I'm sure you did too. You know to your point of the hopelessness piece that that is huge in the space of PPCS, and you know living that myself. So again, I will just kind of remind for our listeners that you know I have always had this raise my hand and say I am high achiever, I'm a type A, I'm high functioning, I, you know, I'm a lifelong leader and learner. Like this has really been my personality forever really. And so for me to live like that and you know, whenever previously I came up against a struggle or something and I was like, well, I'll push through, well, I'll make it through, well, I'll learn my way through, well, I'll just do it Right and so for me to experience something like PPCS where I was completely pulled completely from under me you know living this.

Speaker 2: 43:07

I remember this time where, this time in my life I should say where I was in a time in my life where a lot of people around me, whether it was friends or communities, et cetera, et cetera, people were moving forward. They were hitting these stereotypical trajectory or milestones, you know buying places, traveling to certain areas getting married, having kids, like this whole type of you know transition was happening. But for me, you know, with that personality described, where I was at in my life is boiling water and frying an egg at the same time, the same time. The level of multitasking involved in that took me months to be able to to get into so that I can complete that type of task successfully. So when you talk about you know facing hopelessness, I mean from from my own experience that the worst thing in the world was just not having an end date, because I think you you definitely relate with this. I'm just going to make that sweeping assumption that you are a goal oriented person and you know you work towards goals, you're high achieving, you know you want to continue that momentum and know where you're going and know what the trajectory is like.

Speaker 2: 44:04

But all of a sudden, when you find yourself in a position where you do not have your cognitive wherewithal, you do not have an understanding of what's even happening or maybe all the ways you're struggling, you do know that you're not yourself anymore and you don't have an end date in sight, that is extraordinarily confronting.

Speaker 2: 44:20

And so, whether it's my experience or again what I've just heard from hundreds of people over the years. That is a very, that's a huge piece and that's what really, you know, pulls at my heartstrings. And that's initially when I started serving one-to-one, because I know that what I refer to stuckness in the work that I do, that in PPCS people can hit a certain point of stuckness and I also, unsurprisingly, specialize in working with personalities like my own, the lifelong leaders and learners, the high achievers, because I understand that that personality type process is that type of loss in a very specific way. So, you know, my heart is in it and even to this day, I consistently receive referrals and I'm so deeply grateful, you know, for people to be willing to reach out or to have their contact information passed on, etc. But I feel that I want to create systemic change that then trickles down and affects everybody positively.

Speaker 1: 45:13

Yeah, that's incredible and it pulls on my heartstrings too, as somebody who practices traditional East Asian medicine. I have a lot of other practitioners that are in my profession who have had concussions and then had, and then reached out to me and, you know, asked me to help them. And so it's, you know when, when I'm seeing a fellow colleague who's now facing the that kind of fear of when am I going to get better, when am I going to be able to return back to work, if at all? I mean, I really viscerally feel that because I know what that's like. And there was, you know, there was a point where I could only see about two patients a day and that was as much as I could tolerate and, uh, so I know, I know what that feels like and it's scary terrifying.

Speaker 2: 46:03

It's like there's this I often talk about this and I'm going to take us here. Let me know if you'd like to stay or move elsewhere, but you know what I really often talk about because I think it's so important in terms of just really facilitating a greater understanding of PPCS. There is is the you know, the high level. There's the high level pieces. This is the physical struggle. This is not being able to work, this is not being yourself anymore, not volunteering, not being in community, for example, that you know others are able to more easily perceive not always, sometimes.

Speaker 2: 46:33

But then there's also the second level that I describe in the PPCS journey and that really that is a deeply profound experience that a lot of people go through, which is being ripped away from a sense of self. You know it's like people talk about not defining yourself by external factors, but I think that a lot of people do, whether intentionally or not, and when you have all these external factors suddenly ripped away from you, including your cognitive wherewithal, who are you Right? And like the whole, the whole rest of that, like that's also. You know, my heart is in serving people one-to-one, because I understand that. I've lived it, but I also have made it through. I also have strategies. I also can engage in conversations that help people find a way to introspect and to move through that piece, because losing a sense of who you were is just it's very hard to put into words.

Speaker 1: 47:24

Yeah, and I think that that deep kind of spiritual journey is not often part of the conversation in healthcare at all.

Speaker 2: 47:32

Oh, absolutely, it's, yeah, and to an extent, I mean, I do understand. If you know, healthcare tends to be fairly, fairly siloed. Right, we have experts in specific places and we need and want them there and that's what they handle. But in traditional medical Eastern medicine, of course, what you practice is very different Eastern medicine and maybe blending into spirituality and other holistic spaces, but traditional, that's not covered. So that's one of the massive gaps that I saw in the space, just someone who you know understood my entire experience, the whole thing. And how do I move through on the whole piece? Because, in my opinion and again based on myself and based on hundreds of other people that have been sharing pain points and challenges, these two are interconnected at some point in time, right, Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 48:17

And I'm curious now that you're six years out. You said that you used to be very athletic. Do you still exercise, or do you have certain hobbies now that keep you physically active, that that you're able to do?

Speaker 2: 48:29

Yeah, so I'm actually I'm so proud of myself. It took me years to get back to, um, these very intense, um, heated HIIT workouts that I do get back to these very intense, heated HIIT workouts that I do. I was practicing that way. Practicing I mean I was working out in that way for many years. I had this injury and I mean I had a whole myriad of struggles. I mean anything from my lefts and rights being confused to heart rate variability, issues, to just so many things that prevented me, not to mention neck and back injuries and other you know, chronic fatigue and other pieces. It was a whole mess. I couldn't do it. It took me years.

Speaker 2: 49:04

I have been pushing towards getting back. I'm now in the exact same workouts that I used to do, which gives me so much joy and so much pride. And you know, like anytime you're in that room, I I just like look at myself in the mirror and I just genuinely feel so deeply proud because I am a person who does bear those emotional scars and I still work through some parts that are challenging for me. Yet I show up and I'm there and my body shows up for me. I show up for myself and you know I'm putting, I'm like, I was gonna say like and I'm putting muscle on, which sounds so funny. This is my inner dialogue. We just had an indoor thought escape outdoors and it's OK funny. This is my inner dialogue. We just had an indoor thought, escape outdoors. But I mean, that's part of it, right, like, it's like feeling good, it's that energy, it's, it's yeah, it's so. That is something I'm really happy with. Um, again, in means of my vulnerability, I will also share that I am back and I am capable of being in that room. But I will say that in the particular studio that I work at and work out at sorry, not work at the studio that I work out at, um, there, you know, there's people with a variety of um. You know people in a variety of like, whether it's health space or fitness level. It's just a mix of people.

Speaker 2: 50:11

I will say that I still do struggle with heart rate variability, um, that has not fully resolved.

Speaker 2: 50:17

And so with certain movements where my hands are, you know, at shoulder height or above my head, my heart absolutely races and then all of a sudden, very quickly, I'm on the brink of either passing out or throwing up, to be very honest with you, and so that I wanted to share that, because I am the only person, consistently for various parts of that class, who drops down to her knees to try to manage my heart rate a bit, whereas everyone of all these varying levels, everyone is standing, everyone's completing the workout standing.

Speaker 2: 50:45

So for me, it's also very clear to me that this is an example of you know, I'm able to be there, I'm so proud, I'm getting a great workout, I'm having the best sweat of my life every time I go and I'm so proud, but I'm still not quite at my normal or even at an a usual expectation for the class. So, anyway, that I just want to share that piece physically and there's more what I'm doing physically, but yeah, well, no, I mean, that has to be such a good feeling to know that you can get back and, even if you have to make some modifications, the fact that you're back, and that shows that there's still more that can be done.

Speaker 2: 51:20

Absolutely, that's exactly it. It's just, it's just opportunity for continued growth, for continued improvement. That's exactly it.

Speaker 1: 51:27

Is there anything else that you want to share in terms of what you're doing as far as the work you're doing with chiropractic clinics and physical therapy clinics and kind of these concussion rehab specialty clinics? And you mentioned something about a community forum.

Speaker 2: 51:43

Yeah, so thank you for bringing this up. So right now, as I mentioned, I'm teaching educational workshops to various practitioners various practitioners like on an individual level, as well as concussion clinics, rehab clinics. I've actually had a couple educational institutions reach out to me, which is really interesting angle to think about. So that's kind of in the works, and what I'm also building is an online learning community for professionals.

Speaker 2: 52:08

So this is a space that will contain things like, you know, preloaded video content, potentially mini courses, you know, discussion forum, one-on-ones with me, ebooks, this kind of material, and it's really designed specifically for practitioners who treat the concussion space, which you know could be anything from a doctor, a neurologist, occupational therapist, kinesiologist, and then you know, all these different, various hands-on body-based treatment providers. Generally, these people have pretty tight schedules and so it's meant to be a resource that they can just pop into, grab a resource and go, and so that that is, you know, coming down the pipeline. I'm very excited about building that out. That will be launching, you know, this year, ideally in summer, but we're going to say TVC, because I have a few other things in the works too.

Speaker 1: 52:52

Okay, and then when you're talking to these clinics, is that also like live, I mean like through Zoom or is that pre-recorded videos that people are watching?

Speaker 2: 53:03

So currently I'm presenting in a live fashion. I am presenting virtually live. If a clinic is interested in an in-person presentation, that's something we're definitely able to talk about. I'm in talks with two clinics right now about an in-person just their own preference versus others? Sure, yeah, and that's how. I'm in talks with two clinics right now about an in-person just their own preference versus others. Sure, yeah, and that's that's how I'm currently showing up.

Speaker 1: 53:21

Awesome. And then where can people find you and all of these resources?

Speaker 2: 53:25

So my website is wwwreturntolifeca spelled traditionally. I believe it will be in the show notes as well. You're also welcome to find me on LinkedIn. My name is Chandani Khan. I would love to connect with you to share more resources there and, if you'd like to send me an email, I'm always open to hearing from you know practitioners or people with PPCS or someone who's outside of the space and maybe wants to talk about a various type of collaboration. My email is hello at returntolifeca.

Speaker 1: 53:56

Perfect, I'll definitely put all that in the show notes. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, and I definitely want to do this again in the future.

Speaker 2: 54:05

Thank you so much for having me. This was a really great conversation.

Speaker 1: 54:09

I'm very excited for your book, thank you, should be out next week, so I will let you know as soon as it's available.

Speaker 2: 54:16

Amazing.

Speaker 1: 54:16

Yeah, yeah. Well, I will put all your contact information with your LinkedIn, your website. Do you want me to do your Instagram?

Speaker 2: 54:24

Let's throw it on there. That's, you know, need to give my Instagram some love, but there is some content on there.

Speaker 1: 54:30

Okay, great. I know what that feels like. You know it's hard to be everywhere all at once. Yes, just yes, hard stop, yep, excellent. Well, I'll put all that in there and thank you so much. This has been great.

Speaker 2: 54:45

Thank you, I'll talk to you again soon.

Speaker 1: 54:51

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