Cold Plunge, Ketones, and Creatine - Yay or Nay in Concussion Recovery with Dr. Mike T Nelson | E23

Dr. Mike Nelson explains how ketones and lactate can serve as alternative fuel sources for the brain after concussion when glucose metabolism becomes impaired. This metabolic insight opens new possibilities for recovery support and symptom management.

• Concussions disrupt glucose metabolism in the brain but don't affect ketone and lactate pathways
• Parasympathetic nervous system activation techniques help balance autonomic disruption after brain injury
• Breathing with longer exhales, wide-gaze relaxation, and gentle walking promote parasympathetic tone
• Cold water therapy can be beneficial but should start "warm" (55-60°F) and focus on time over intensity
• Face-only cold exposure with breath holding triggers the mammalian dive reflex for parasympathetic activation
• Magnesium (particularly bisglycinate) supports nervous system regulation, especially before bedtime
• Ketone esters provide quick access to alternative brain fuel within 15-20 minutes of consumption
• Taking 10-20g of ketones before exercise may improve tolerance and reduce symptom flares
• Creatine (10-20g daily) shows promise as both preventive and recovery support for brain injuries
• Research shows impressive protective effects in animal models but human brain uptake differs
• The "kitchen sink approach" combining multiple therapies likely offers fastest recovery path

Website: mikenelson.com

Podcast: Flex Diet Podcast 

Instagram: @DrMikeTNelson

Carrick Institute Course taught by Dr. Mike T Nelson: Ketones and Traumatic Brain Injury

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Chapters

• 0:00 Ketones and Concussion Recovery
• 3:34 Autonomic Recovery Strategies
• 7:11 Cold Immersion and Parasympathetic Support
• 11:34 Supplements and Ketones
• 20:03 Research Directions and Kitchen Sink Approach
• 25:22 Creatine for Brain Protection
• 30:30 Closing Thoughts and Resources

Transcript

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 1:10

The body's ability to the brain's ability to use lactate and ketones doesn't appear to be impacted by the concussion, where we know glucose metabolism goes kind of goofy.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 1:23

Welcome to Life after impact the concussion recovery Podcast. I'm Dr Ayla Wolf, and I will be hosting today's episode where we help you navigate the often confusing, frustrating and overwhelming journey of concussion and brain injury recovery. This podcast is your go to resource for actionable information, whether you're dealing with a recent concussion, struggling with post concussion syndrome, or just feeling stuck in your healing process. In each episode, we dive deep into the symptoms, testing, treatments and neurological insights that can help you move forward with clarity and confidence. We bring you leading experts in the world of brain health, functional neurology and rehabilitation to share their wisdom and strategies. So if you're feeling lost, hopeless or like no one understands what you're going through. Know that you are not alone. This podcast can be your guide and partner in recovery, helping you build a better life after impact. So what are your thoughts on other things that help to I mean, so obviously the whole point of the exercise is that it helps to tone the autonomic nervous system, which is affected by the concussion. But there's other things that help to tone the autonomic nervous system, like cold plunge and infrared sauna and all these other things people are doing in terms of breath work. So are there certain things that you particularly gravitate to or recommend to people when it comes to, like, recovering from a workout, or, you know, doing these, these kind of autonomic type therapies,

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 2:59

yeah, I mean, if, if I have HRV and data just showed Someone's probably very sympathetic, I may even have them do some parasympathetic stuff before exercise, right? So try to get them at a lower state so they have more physiologic head room to play with. So anything that increases parasympathetic vagal tone, breathing, anything that has a longer exhale, in general, will increase parasympathetic tone. Visual stuff, like being able to sit with, like a very wide, relaxed gaze, uh, walking is pretty good, too. So you have the basically optic flow of that. Those are probably the main ones I use. Like, I have used some red light therapy. I think it can be good. The caveat you have to watch out with that is, if you do too much too soon, you do have a fair amount of Ross that is built up reactive oxygen species. So I tend to be a little bit more conservative on the times with that. So if you have a two panel and they're sitting in front of it, I have people just start at five minutes, which is probably pretty conservative. I think heat can be good, just you have to watch out for the symptoms, and it's highly individual. But if they can tolerate some heat, and they feel relaxed by doing it, and they feel better, I think that can be useful. I'm kind of on the fence on cold water immersion. If I do do it, I would have them start actually quite air quotes, warm, probably 5560 degrees, and I would try to go more for time and less intensity. So we do know that as you sit in there, like initially, you're going to have, you know, depending on the coldness, the gasp reflex, more of your sympathetic nervous system that's on your skin is going to get lit up by the cold water. If it's not as cold, you get a little bit less of that, and then it does look like over time, you do become a little bit more parasympathetic. And I think mentally, it's a good exercise to teach people they can absorb certain types of stressors. So I think it could be useful for that. You just have to watch their HRV, because most of the time. When people try it, they've watched Joe Rogan too many times, and they set it at 35 degrees, and they're almost shivering when they get out of there, and their HRV is like, freaking dog shit the next day. And it's like, yeah, that was just a whole sympathetic experience. Like, that's probably not gonna necessarily help you, but, you know, I find it does. It's variable with that you can go further down that rabbit hole and then try to get more just what's called a mammalian dive reflex. So that would be getting more of the face in cold water only, and then probably doing a breath hold at that point. For God's sakes, don't do any Wim Hof, high rate of breathing or anything like that beforehand, because you can have a shallow water block out and die and drown, so don't do that, but just a simple breath, hold, stick your face in cold water. You will get a lot more parasympathetic tone with that. So people are going to play with cold water. That's probably where I would start, especially if they're more on the sympathetic side. Supplement stuff can have. Help. Usually magnesium. There's some debate about magnesium L-threonate. The data on it I've seen is mixed, but some people respond really well to it. Some people don't. I just found that it's quite variable, but magnesium in general can be beneficial, especially before bed. I do like magnesium, bis lysinate, if I had to pick one form, most likely, probably does cross the blood brain barrier. It's pretty inexpensive. Get into capsules. Don't get into powder. It tastes absolutely freaking horrible, so bad. Omega threes can be helpful with that. And again, I'm a big fan of ketones. Again, I do some work for tekton, they make a ketone ester. The benefit with ketone esters is you can consume them as a supplement. You can get up to a high level of ketosis within 1520 minutes. We've seen people hit one or two millimolar very easily. We had people hit four millimolar. Dosage is probably 10 to 20 grams. And then the benefit of them is it again, I said, how do those taste? Almost all of them on the market taste absolutely horrendously bad, like the first one I ever had was from via DOM de gastino. I wouldn't say who, but a buddy of his was running the supplemental company decided to make it. I know the chemist who actually made it. He's like, Hey, man, that's new ketone. You want to he didn't tell me what it was like, I knew supplement. You want to try it out. I'm like, sure. It's like, I tell you, it's grass safe, it's non hormonal. But whatever you do, don't throw it up because it is ungodly expensive to make. This is probably eight years ago now. I'm like, okay, sure, whatever. Man. So he sends me a little container this big, you went to Home Depot and bought, like, a good grips, like thing to measure freaking glue in, no CoA, no return address, like nothing, no label, like no nothing. And I get this, and I'm sitting here in my kitchen looking going, God, do I really want to do this? Like I haven't met this guy in person. I've talked to him for like, 12 years online, is this, like, the world's longest white, unlabeled powder. And so I open it, and I'm like, smell it, and I'm like, not much smell to it. And so I tried it, and I've never had jet fuel in my life, but that's exactly what it reminded me of. And I'm standing over my sink, like literally trying not to vomit it out, like back in my sink, it was horrendously bad. So I think what it was is a compound called one three butane diol. It was originally used as potentially a food alternative for NASA back in the 70s, but they dropped it, and it's a precursor to ketones, so it will convert to some ketones in the liver, but also converts to a dial path, path to high enough doses, converts to an alcohol. So I would not recommend that one, and it tastes pretty horrible. The other ketones are not much better tasting. But the tekton one is, again, I'm biased, because I work for the company, actually pretty decent. So they took the BHB molecule and they just bonded it to glycerol. So there's nothing else in it besides BHB, which is the ketone and then glycerol. So it makes it through digestion. Gets cleaved, glycerol just gets processed by the liver, which is a breakdown of free fatty acids.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 9:28

So it's beta hydroxybutyrate with glycerol.

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 9:31

Yep, that's all it is. Yeah, okay.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 9:35

And the glycerol doesn't really mess up your digestion, or intestines

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 9:41

doesn't seem to. I mean, I may have tried four cans at a time and not had any issues. Like most people haven't really had any issues at higher doses, yeah, and it serves as a fuel alternative in the brain, because, as you know, when you get concussed, glucose metabolism gets all screwy. You have a high amount of inflammation. So ketones can pass through the blood brain barrier, and can actually still work as a metabolic source of energy, even post concussion, because the ketone and the lactate pathways don't appear to be impacted, which is kind of crazy. It's also has some neuro anti inflammatory properties. So I have been trying with clients to if they're up to doing it, obviously, their doctor clears it. Try 1020, grams, maybe 20 minutes before exercise. And in some cases, they're much more tolerant of exercise. Now, again, I think that's probably more on the neuro neurology side than it is providing a fuel. Some of the ketones do go to muscle, some of the go to cardiac. But the limited data we have so far shows that brain and cardiac tissue may even prefer ketones over muscle tissue, which is interesting.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 10:53

Okay, great. Well, I would love to try that one.

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 10:57

Yeah, we'll try to we'll get you some. I know they're reformulating stuff. The new formula will be out in August or September, sometime around there. But yeah, they can get the old formula, which still tastes pretty decent, actually,

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 11:09

awesome. Um, and it's also easier. It's easier for the brain to break down into usable energy, because there are less conversion steps than when you're trying to use glucose as a fuel in the brain, correct? That's kind of part of the concept.

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 11:29

Yeah, easier fuel for the brain to latch onto and use in, I would say, in a state of post concussion, yes, because the glucose metabolism just has this huge monkey wrench thrown into it, and that you end up with this mismatch of your brain's like, oh my god, what the hell happened? We need more energy to try to fix all this broken crap that's going on. And your blood brain barrier may have opened up, and so now you got all this crap flown in your brain that's not supposed to be there, triggering inflammation, which is just making the energy intensity go up higher, because it needs energy in order to get rid of the inflammation. And the body's ability to the brain's ability to use lactate and ketones doesn't appear to be impacted by the concussion. Or we know glucose metabolism goes kind of goofy, and most people glucose is still a preferred fuel, but the brain can also still use ketones, but post concussion, glucose usage kind of, yeah, kind of goes down to what degree and to how much it's all up for debate, because you can't, you Can't run what's called a clamp study across the brain. You can do that across muscle. Can't really do that across the brain, right? Yeah,

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 12:38

yeah. Where do you think, or, like, where would you want to see research go in terms of, like, are there other there, are there, like, burning questions that you would love to see a team of researchers with endless funding come in and try to solve

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 12:54

I mean, to me, the first question I would have is what I call, like the kitchen sink approach. If we were to set this up as a study, what is the I think, one showing that these therapies are effective? Because I think there's a fair amount of people who still believe that, yeah, you know, doing neuro rehab and, you know, grading exercise, post concussion, all that stuff. Yeah, I don't know that just sounds kind of kind of funky hokey to me. Like, show me all the studies, right? We can show lots of studies looking at principles and, you know, outcomes and stuff like that. But I think just even having a, what I call, like the kitchen sink study of, Okay, we're gonna maybe give them ketones beforehand. Maybe we're gonna do some parasympathetic stuff before it. They're gonna do drills that make them more stable. We've got actual, you know, data showing that that happens. Okay? We're gonna slowly grade up their exercise. They're gonna do maybe a range of motion testing to make sure that it's okay for them. We're gonna monitor HRV the next day, right? All this stuff would be a monster pain in the opposite ass to do, and it would be hard for compliance. And of course, the number one criticism would rightfully be, if it works. Well, we don't know what component of this actually helped the most. I 100% agree, but just doing something like that to show that, hey, look at this person. Look at how bad their concussion was how intolerant of exercise they were. And, yeah, we did this, like kitchen sink approach with all these professionals, but in four months, they were back to normal, or three months, or, you know, whatever the duration was. I, I think as much as that's not a classic randomized, you know, double blind crossover, placebo controlled study. I think that's more meaningful than to people who have this than the other studies. Their studies are super cool for mechanism and understanding it and building off of it. 100% totally agree, like, should all those things be done? Absolutely they should be done. But that is a long freaking process, even with unending funds and people to run it and everything else. But I think even just, you know, like a kitchen sink approach to show someone that's like, yeah, look, we actually have actual data here that if you do these things, yes, I know it's a pain in the butt, but odds are with this group of 20 people, or whatever, you know, vast majority of them got better within three months, four months, whatever the timeframe is, I think that would be more useful to show that it is possible that the system is that plastic, that it can be changed that much. Because I think it's kind of shocking to us that there's still people out there who think that, you know, whatever happens post concussion, it's kind of the way it is, like if you had a concussion five years ago, like your brain's fixed, like nothing's changing at that point, which we know that's like, completely not true at all. But I, unfortunately, I still think there's a fair amount of people who believe that I've written athletes who are, like, just even testing here in my place. I'm like, Okay, you you've had a concussion, right? Like, I know it's not on your form. I know it's not on your history, but, like, I'm pretty sure you had a concussion, and they're like, ah, oh yeah. Like, six years ago, I had this thing or that thing, you know, like, and they were just told, Ah, don't worry about it. It's not a thing. Just, you know, walk it off, whatever. So, yeah, I think the first question is, what is actually physically possible? The next question. Zen worry about mechanisms and deeper dive inside,

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 16:14

yeah, well, and honestly, like those Kitchen Sink studies are some of the most interesting ones to read.

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 16:20

Oh, totally.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 16:21

They do figure out how to do them in a way. And yeah, because then you I mean, the frustrating thing is that, as a clinician, none of us are doing just one therapy with our patients like we are do, always doing all of the things. And so so many of my patients, you know, when I come in and we're doing acupuncture and nutrition and herbal therapies and neuro rehab therapies, you know, head, eye vestibular rehab, and then all of a sudden, they're like, Well, I'm getting better, but I don't know what's working. So they're kind of like, what can we take out? And I'm like, well, we don't actually know which of these one things is working, and it's more likely that they're all working together. So we got to kind of just keep moving forwards and gradually tweaking things and making sure you're still on the right path. But yeah, I love the concept of that kitchen sink study of, let's give people some some ketones and some exercise and some neuro rehab, and do a bunch of before and after metrics and and show that these people got better.

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 18:25

Yeah. And even with clients, I give them that option, like, Hey, here's our options. We can throw a whole bunch of stuff at it, assuming you have time, assuming you can be compliant. I do think that is probably the shortest path to getting better. However, you will have no idea what thing was the main driver you'll have will probably be virtually impossible for us to tell, but you'll probably be better sooner, or we can take a more stepwise approach. It's going to take a little bit longer, but you would probably have a greater confidence to say this thing was the main driver, and so then I just kind of have them pick, because people want, well, I want the fastest approach. I want to know exactly what the thing was. That's not an option.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 19:09

Yeah, yeah. Tell me a little bit about your podcast. I mean, you've done over 300 episodes is, is it mostly focused on nutrition, or is it kind of the gamit of all of your expertise?

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 19:24

Yeah, when I started it, so obviously, I have a certification that's mostly on nutrition recovery, which is a flex diet cert. I have one that's more on Advanced Recovery, which is a physiologic flexibility. Was looking at temp changes, pH changes, lactate and ketones, and then CO two and oh two regulation. And initially I started as a way to just, you know, kind of promote the certification. It was more on the nutrition side. And I started off just like having, it's a very rote questions, and you kind of pick, like, Ooh, you know, the bigger people in the area you want to have on and stuff. And I remember doing one with Dom D'Agostino, who I've known for years. And so I had all my questions out, and we get on there, and he's like, Oh, how's it going? Man? I was like, Oh, good. He's like, Yeah, I just finished a fast for 72 hours, and then just did a max deadlift. It's like, what, you know? So we ended up, like, I threw out all the questions I had spent like, two days trying to get ready for it. I'm like, well, I'll just talk to him about this anyway, you know. And then I realized, Oh, if I'm not interested in talking to people, like, why would anyone else want to listen? And I realized that, you know, as of now, like, yeah, we have a couple of people that help sponsor the show through affiliate links, but I'm the only one doing it like i i pick all the own the guests I want, and I'm just wanted as a way of kind of selfishly, like conversations that I want to have, that I think other people would find interesting. So we've had everything from we just had Jim's Fatima on talking about micro dosing. From their new book to, you know, a guy who was a bodybuilder that went from 14 years being natural to now using performance enhancing drugs, to a guy talking about the enhanced games, to creating research for neurology. We've had a couple functional neurology people on, so just kind of a, I'd say, a wide variety. We had a Dr. Patel on talking about a mitochondrial blood test you can do. So just kind of anything I find that's in the, you know, exercise, nutrition, health performance area that something like, I really want to talk to him about, you know, this thing or that thing, or even have a lot of friends in the industry, I'll just be like, Hey, I saw you have this new study, and you want to just come on the podcast and talk about it. So, yeah, so it's been fun. Yeah,

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 21:40

awesome. Well, so that brings up a question, what are your thoughts on creatine, as far as, like, the brain? Because my I remember back in like 2016 2017 I was looking at a lot of the animal research on on creatine, saying, Oh, this looks like it's very effective for neurodegenerative conditions. And then there was a very large scale NIH funded study on Parkinson's, where they, like, they had phase one phase two trials, and they just didn't show any benefits. But then, now I've here, I've heard there's other research looking at the. You know, when people have the second impact syndrome, where they get one concussion, and then the second concussion actually causes a death, and they're thinking that the concussion is depleting creatine levels in the brain. And then now they're looking at long COVID, or, you know, COVID infections, and saying that when you have COVID, it can also deplete creatine, and then people can have cognitive symptoms. So where you know, have you been pouring into this research? And what are your thoughts on creatine for, for the brain? Specifically? Yeah,

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 22:45

I think there was a new study I put on my Instagram that showed a benefit with creatine and reduction. I think it was, might have been Parkinson's risk. I'd have to go back and look again. But my general thought is, is it a air quotes cure all for everything? No. Are there a lot of trials that show almost any negative downside? I would say no. Some trials may show, like you mentioned, no benefit, but some of them show pretty big benefits. Creatine, last time I looked in PubMed, had creatine monohydrate, I think had 543, references. So it's been studied very well since the 90s. People now have consumed bazillions of doses of creatine. There's almost no side effects from it, really. So in terms of safety, we know it's incredibly safe. It's the running joke I make, which I stole from Dr Tom Inkling on is there's way more studies on creating than the freaking ketchup in my refrigerator right now, right? So very safe. Dosing for neurologic stuff is still up in the air, I would say. So what I've done myself before, kiteboarding trips and any athletes I work with who are in any sport where concussion is a real risk, was it? MMA, American football, potentially even soccer stuff like that, probably for years now, I'm like, you know, during in season, probably go up to 10 to 20 grams per day. We don't know of any downsides. We do know there is some potential upsides. There's some very impressive mouse data showing what would translate to a grant 20 grams in a human. They gave mice what the equivalent mouse dose was, and then they whacked a bunch of mice on the head, and the other group, they did not, a group of mice that they walked on the head that had creatine were much, much better. Now, the downside of that research is, I had Dr Eric Rosslyn on the podcast, so he's done a lot of creatine research in humans. Is that humans don't accumulate creatine in the brain at the same rate of mice. So trying to take the animal and the preclinical data translate it to humans is pretty hard. Obviously, there's not a good biopsy for the brain, so you have to use non invasive technology like Mrs. And other things to try to get an idea of what's going on. The amount of creatine in the brain is very small on top of it, but very important. So right now, I would say 10 to 20 grams is probably the appropriate dose. You probably do need to hire for muscle saturation. Five to 10 grams at 30 days will completely saturate muscle. We don't know what the kinetics are for the brain. It's probably longer and probably higher doses. The good part is we don't know much of a negative downside of that. So yeah, so I would say most people like, I can't really think of a case where I've not really recommended creatine unless they've got just really weird kidney issues or something like that. And that's just more, just do whatever your doctor says.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 25:47

So you're saying, like, a really good kind of real world application of it would be if somebody is participating in some kind of sport that has a high risk for either sub concussive hits to the head or actual concussions, that taking it as a preventative, as a way of keeping brain levels of of creatine, you know, adequate, could actually have a protective effect.

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 26:11

It could, you know, if you talk to the hardcore researchers in that area, they would say me, maybe, you know, there's, um, some data of it being used prophylactically. My counter argument would be, I don't know of a downside, right? I don't literally, even theoretically or in practice, like, other than, yeah, it's kind of, it's not even really that expensive anymore. You know, taking 20 grams a day is kind of a pain in the butt. You probably have probably have to split your doses. Other than that, I don't, I don't know of a downside. So for me personally, like I've before I go kiteboarding, I'll use very high doses of creatine, 20 grams per day. Sometimes I'll use CBD, astaxanthin, and then I actually carry ketones with me. So for me personally, if I were to get whacked in the head, the first thing I would do is probably 20 or 30 grams of a ketone Ester, and then I would transition into a ketogenic diet. Yeah, that is my bias. Personally,

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 27:07

yeah, yeah. I was taking it more so to help me with CrossFit. And then I I started to get a. Little too bulky, and, oh, I've never had that issue. My My body's very good at putting on muscle, but it doesn't love to burn fat, and so I feel like it's easy for me to, like, bulk up and get bigger, but like, I'm not actually like feeling small, like getting slimmed down. So anyway, I stopped taking it because I felt like I was getting a little too hulk out, nearly cosmetic reasons for stopping.

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 27:41

Yeah, there's a people are probably more hyper responders to it also. So, yeah, there's some

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 27:49

waterway like, maybe just take it for like two months and then stop and, you know, I think I might try pulsing it a little bit, see how that

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 27:56

goes. Yeah, and you can go to a lower dose too. I mean, there's some data showing as low as for performance stuff, two grams a day may be enough too. So,

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 28:05

yeah, I was doing five. So I was thinking maybe I just try like, two or three and see if that's, you know, enough. Because, I mean, I was getting a lot of PRs during, like, the four months that I took it, and I felt like I could tell that it was working. And so I was like, Oh, this is great. You know, PRs every week,

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 28:23

yeah, sounds good to me. I do it, yeah, exactly.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 28:26

And now I feel like I'm plateauing a little bit. So maybe it's time to There you go. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Well, I would love to have you, have you on again, and maybe we can do a deeper dive into the the ketone conversation.

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 28:40

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I did a whole program for the Keurig Institute on that they can find about the use of ketones. Ketogenic diets for primarily for concussion. There's not a ton of human data on it, but there's a fair amount of animal data. There's a lot of physiologic lot of physiologic rationale behind how it can be helpful. I have a fair amount of bunch of anecdotal reports now that are pretty crazy, but, yeah, it's one of those things that if there's any functional neurology people listening, we've got tons of data showing that the products are safe. It'd be as simple as, you know, just testing it out before patients, especially patients who have a very hard time making it through the therapy, because they just get completely torched, like I would be super interested. If you give them 20 grams of ketone Ester, are they allow? Are they able to then do higher quality therapy? Which would then, you know, promote their recovery? That'd be my hypothesis.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 29:36

Yeah, awesome. And where can people find you? I know you've got a website, a newsletter, the podcast,

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 29:43

yeah? So best way is probably the website, which is mikeynelson.com the little newsletter tab up there, you can sign up to the newsletter. So I usually write daily for the newsletter, which is free, trying to make it interesting and entertaining as best I can. And then we have the podcast, which is just flex diet podcast. And then we do have some stuff on Instagram, also just under Dr. Mike T Nelson, awesome. What's the t stand for? I tell people Tiger, but they don't believe me. It's actually Thomas, okay.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 30:12

Nice, nice. Well, I still need to get over there so we can run my VO2 Max.

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 30:17

yeah, for sure, I'm actually, literally sending it out to be calibrated this week, so hopefully it'll be back relatively soon.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 30:24

All right. Well, send me a text and love to make that happen.

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 30:27

Yeah, awesome.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 30:29

Okay, sweet. Well, have a good rest of your day.

Dr. Mike T Nelson Ph.D.: 30:31

You too. Thank you appreciate it.

Dr. Ayla Wolf: 30:32

Yep, bye. Ayla, medical disclaimer, this video or podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice. No doctor patient relationship is formed the use of this information and materials included is at the user's own risk. The content of this video or podcast is not intended to be a substitute for medical advice diagnosis or treatment. And consumers of this information should seek the advice of a medical professional for any and all health related issues. A link to our full medical disclaimer is available in the notes you.